Tuesday, February 08, 2011

Kevin Love's Double-Double Streak, Clearly Not an "NBA Record" -- Wilt Had Somewhere Between 80 and 880

OK, it is a great thing that Kevin Love has tied John Stockton and Kevin Garnett for longest recorded double-double streak since 1987 (37 games). Love will, no doubt, pass KG and Stockton in his next game.

But let's not claim that Love is setting an "NBA record" by doing so. Wilt averaged 50 points and 27 boards in the 1961-62 season. Here is his game log: http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.sports.basketball.nba.la-lakers/2008-05/msg02598.html

His lowest rebound total for any game was 15.

When you average 50 a game, you clearly never get close to being held under 10 in any game. And he wasn't (Russell held him to 26, 28 and 30).

So we know through the hard work of some guy in 2008 that Wilt had AT LEAST an 80 game streak. In his first 7 seasons in the league, Wilt averaged at least 33 points and at least 22 rebounds a game. In his first 4 seasons his points total never fell below 37.6 and his rebounds total never fell below 24.3.

So, unless there was one game where he got ejected, it is likely that Wilt had a double-double streak of at least 4 years (311 games) and pretty likely that he had a 7 year streak (543 games by my count). You want to move into the theatre of the possible-but-not-likely? Wilt had 12 years in which his stats were better than Kevin Love's current stats (both on scoring and rebounding for 11 of those years). Wilt was hurt one year and played only 12 games, so in that stretch he played around 11 seasons of basketball. 11 X 80 games = 880 games. It is possible that Wilt had an 880 game double-double streak. http://www.nba.com/history/players/chamberlain_stats.html

(Side note -- Wilt led the league in scoring and rebounding almost every year between 1961 and 1965 and in NONE of those years did he win the MVP! Talk about getting jobbed. You wonder why Wilt had a testy relationship with the media?).

Even if we assume the occasional ejection or injury or bad game, if you take those 880 games and divide them up into streaks of 300, 100, 200, 200, and 80, Love's 37 really isn't anything approaching an "NBA record."

So why do we cut off double-double streaks at 1987? Was 1987 just a really great year? Do we miss the Reagan Administration that much? Are we trying to use a cutoff date for before Pervis Ellison and Stacy King joined the league?

Well, it is simpler than that -- we use 1986-87 not because it is the last 25 years. That is a coincidence. Go to Michael Jordan's stats on baketball-reference.com: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

Look up his 1986-87 game log -- comes right up. Look at his game log for 1984-85 -- you can't. The basketball-reference folks don't go back before 1986-87. That is why we use 1986-87, because people have done half of our work for us. I am sure that somewhere in a dusty old library we can find enough newspaper box scores to figure out exactly how many games in a row Wilt had with a double-double. No one wants to do that....and add me to that list.

But we KNOW, for sure, that Wilt had 80 consecutive double-doubles, so let's stop referring to Love's streak as an "NBA Record."

11 comments:

John Sonnek said...

Great blog. I was thinking the same thing when I saw he was about to break Garnett and Stockton's "record." I found mention of Wilt's longest streak at 227. Good luck with that, K-Love.

HM said...

I am really surprised it isn't over 227. It seems difficult to believe that Wilt averaged 35-25 over the course of 4 years and had games during that stretch where he didn't get 10 points or 10 rebounds.

Anonymous said...

Yeah it's 227, but I agree it's surprising.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/Minnesota-Timberwolves-Kevin-Love-is-Moses-Malones-kind-of-player-19553649

HM said...

I have now seen the number posted at 247. Again, this seems low. But I guess he must have had 9 rebounds a couple times during his 880 game stretch. If he had something like 247 (break) 240 (break) 200 (break) and 233 I guess it is possible that 247 is the record.

Anonymous said...

I think were all forgetting Wilt Chamberlains competition back when he played was equivilent to Kevin Love playing middle school kids

HM said...

An interesting claim. The NBA had 8 (not the current 30)teams back in 1961. http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1961.html

Of the 10 guys on the two all-NBA teams in 1961, 8 are now in the Hall of Fame. Elgin Baylor was 4th in the league in rebounding at around 20 a game -- Wilt got 7+ more a game.

I do not agree that Wilt playing against Hall of Fame players such as Bill Russell, Bob Petit, Elgin Baylor, Oscar Robertson, Tom Gola, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Jerry Lucas, Willis Reed and Paul Arizin is equivalent to Kevin Love playing against middle schoolers.

Anonymous said...

C'mon man no one is comparing Kevin Love to Wilt, but no one by today's nba standards can do what he has done. That is impressive you must admit

Anonymous said...

It's not that there were quality players, but the athleticism of the 60's was no where near that of the late 80's 90's and today.
The other major factor was the pace and the nature of the game
nowadays teams average something like 40 rebounds
in 1959-60, Boston averaged 71.5 rebounds a game, including a 109 rebound game
so a double double then, aint a double double now
10 rebounds then would be like 6-7 now
Chamberlin's 55 and Russels 51, are more than a whole team's totals in todays game,
in 1960 in one game Phildelphia had 40 rebounds in ONE QUARTER!!!!

It would be an understatment to say it's apples and oranges

Anonymous said...

Also to put it in perspective
Five players averaged over 20 rebounds a game for multiple seasons in the 60's,
Since
1998, Only 1 player has finished a season with an average over 15 (ben wallace once)
This year the 5th Best rebounder in the league (Gasol) is averaging 10.4
there are only 5 who are averaging double figures,
Kevin Love is obviously no Wilt Chamberlin, but was there ever a season where wilt averaged 50% more rebounds than the 5th best in leauge?

Anonymous said...

1987 was a great year when Minnesota Pro Sports finally won a title with the Twins for the first title after the Minneapolis Lakers left!

HM said...

First -- I apologize for a now-corrected error: Russell twice led the league in rebounding over Wilt, 1963-64 and 1964-65. Wilt did lead the league in scoring those years.

Second,Gasol gets about 70% of Love's total rebounds and gasol would need to get 50% more to match Love. Years this was true of Wilt and the 5th place guy:

1959-60 (27 versus 14.2)
1960-61 (27.2 versus 14.4)
1961-62 (25.6 versus 14.7)
1962-63 (24.3 versus 14.3)

1964-65 (though Wilt was second, his 22.9 was above the 5th place guy's 14.7)

1965-66 (24.6 versus 15.7)
1966-67 (24.1 versus 15.1)
1967-68 (23.8 versus 13.7)

So, times Wilt led the league and was 50% better than the 5th place guy -- 7 years. Times he was 50% better than the 5th place guy -- 8 years.

Wilt's most dominant rebounding year -- 1967-68; not only did he almost double the 5th place finisher, he had 4.8 RPG greater than #2. Love currently gets 1.9 more rebounds than Dwight Howard.

Wilt's second place guy in 1967-68 got 80% of Wilt's boards. Howard gets 88% of Love's boards.